Disclaimer: This interview was conducted before the COVID-19 virus pandemic.
Carvens Lissaint found himself heavy-hearted, wandering aimlessly around New York hearing God’s voice pressing him to go to church. Amidst a huge show where he was slated to perform a poem entitled, “Beauty Part Three”, about his personal insecurities and shortcomings with women, he found himself at a crossroads. His steps eventually led him to the Gramercy Theater, where Hillsong NYC was holding service. He walked in during the altar call weeping and crying out to God burdened to follow and put his trust fully in Jesus.
He was 22-years old at the time and in his last year of acting school at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts. From there he went to St. John's University Queen’s campus to finish his Bachelor’s degree where he joined the gospel choir and immersed himself into ministry leadership. At the same time he was balancing his burgeoning acting career and new relationship with his then girlfriend now wife, Leslie.
As a first-generation, Haitian American, spirituality ran deep in his Caribbean roots. Born and raised in the upper west side of Harlem, New York––to Haitian immigrant parents––his Catholic upbringing was also mixed with supernatural phenomena.
“I saw the supernatural early, I always believed in a higher being at that time,” Lissaint says.
However, growing up his view toward church—something he hated as a kid, was met with skepticism. From being baptized as an infant without his permission to confessing to a priest in a booth, there were things that rubbed him the wrong way. Though he believed in God, he wasn’t a follower of Christ. His first real experience with God was onstage through poetry.
He was introduced to poetry by way of singing in R&B/hip hop groups as a teen. A part of a non-profit organization called Urban Dove where he took frequent trips around the city, he attended his first poetry open mic called Urban Word NYC at 16 years old. After seeing the show, he was convinced that poetry was for him.
“In performances, I felt that I saw that God was using me and that got me curious,” Lissaint says.
He developed an interest in acting as a teen as well after seeing a musical called “In the Heights” by Tony award-winning writer of “Hamilton,” Lin-Manuel Miranda. Lissaint was sitting in the audience mesmerized, and Miranda became the very reason Lissaint pursued acting. Fast forward to the year 2009 Lissaint found himself onstage at the Urban Word NYC poetry slam finals at the Apollo theater. He did a poem about Haiti, expressing the poverty and his experience visiting there before the earthquake. After reciting the poem for an audience of 1200, he vividly recalls there not being a dry eye in the house.
“I just remember being like I’m just a dude, I know I don’t have the ability to make 1200 people cry, I must have a gift, and then I was like oh snap! If I have a gift then that might suggest that there’s a gift giver,” Lissaint says.
Through poetry, Lissaint performed all over the country and beyond. After years of questioning the faith it was at the urging of Christian friends who surrounded him and encouraged him to visit Hillsong’s New York location. Though initially he resisted routinely, they kept inviting him routinely as many tumultuous moments were unfolding in his life.
“My mother was in Haiti at the time of the earthquake so we were preparing for her funeral because we hadn’t heard from her at all. I remember praying to God, “if you spare my mother’s life, I’ll be a better person.” Then a few days after that the phone rang and my dad answered and he screamed and told me it was my mother and he was crying, I grabbed the phone from him,” Lissaint says. “I literally remember a force bringing me to my knees, and I felt it was like a presence of worship in the room that I never felt or understood,” Lissaint says.
Carvens Lissaint (right) in the Tony award-winning musical Hamilton. Photo by Joan Marcus.
At the height of his touring with Strivers Row, a poetry group made up of Lissaint’s closest friends, his relationship with women is what ultimately led Him to Christ.
“We had an international fan base and I would encounter women who wanted me for my gifts and not me. I was continually heartbroken, seeking out companionships and relationships and I was already so vulnerable and emotionally open,” Lissaint says.
“I was very overweight as a kid and felt unwanted in a verbally abusive household with no affection, so I desired that and wanted that---so much so that I put myself in a compromising, heartbreaking situation. The moment when I realized I was seeking validation in something that was empty and was gonna be void. I was seeking love in things that would never fulfill me, I was empty and void and I felt like I needed to speak to God” Lissaint says.
Lissaint felt that God gave him words that specifically tapped into the human condition that moved people. He felt something supernatural in the art form. He eventually formed a habit of regularly praying before every poetry slam, ending with “In Jesus Name,” not sure where it came from.
“I didn’t even pray like that when I was in the Catholic Church. I would often talk about ‘being used’ I had a lot of Christianese sayings that I didn’t know where it came from, people in the poetry community used to call me ‘Pastor Carv,” Lissaint says.
Four colleges and three degrees later (completing graduate school at NYU), he left Hillsong church and joined the newly planted Bridge Church NYC under Pastor James Roberson. Fully immersed in preaching, teaching and singing he continued his pursuit of acting.
In 2009, Lin-Manuel Miranda got asked to perform at the White House for then President Barack Obama’s spoken word poetry night. Joshua Bennett, poet and best friend of Lissaint, was also invited to perform. As Lissaint sat in the audience, he would witness what would later be the opening song of Hamilton, written and performed by Miranda.
As it turns out Joshua Bennett and Lin-Manuel Miranda became good friends, opening the door for then aspiring actor Lissaint to get tickets to see “In The Heights” for a backstage encounter with Miranda.
In 2011, Miranda had a birthday party where Bennett brought Lissaint as his plus one. During his first year of grad school, Lissaint was invited to audition for Hamilton but turned down the opportunity. However, during his second year of NYU, while watching his friends secure Tony Awards and movie deals he had second thoughts about it. Fast forward to his last year of grad school, the casting office of Hamilton ended up seeing Lissaint in a show and loved his performance.
After a recommendation from another actor, he got the chance to audition. He went through a grueling 9 auditions over a time span of 7 months before he finally got the role as George Washington in Hamilton. He got booked on Broadway as a stand-by at first but later received the role as George Washington in Hamilton.
“I want to bring dignity and honor to myself, to my wife, and to the people in my life. I’m an actor because I believe it’s my job to tell stories outside of myself to truthfully investigate the human condition that allows people to see the truth.”
Now as a full-time actor, the 30-year-old is balancing being a husband, actor, and a Christian. He has developed a system to ensure that he honors the Lord in his acting roles while not compromising the Christian faith. Acting can obviously present challenges for the actor involved that can contradict and flat-out oppose a person’s Christian faith. However, Lissaint understands this well and established some ground rules to help him navigate this space.
“Is this a story worth telling? Is this a story interesting to me? Does the story have elements [not every story has to be a Christian story in order for you to see God in it] are there moments of redemption in the story, are there elements of reconciliation in the story? Are there truthful elements of an individual wrestling and struggling with something? We can see God in a lot of that stuff and it doesn’t have to be explicitly Christian. So I look for those things,” Lissaint says.
Lissaint further explains, “I want to bring dignity and honor to myself, to my wife, and to the people in my life. I’m an actor because I believe it’s my job to tell stories outside of myself to truthfully investigate the human condition that allows people to see the truth.”
Though there are many professing Christians in a variety of entertainment fields, including Denzel Washington and Chance the Rapper among others. Lissaint feels a lot of Christian artists struggle with balancing the two worlds. From his perspective the entertainment industry tends to view Christianity primarily through a traditional westernized cultural lens which brings hostility.
“I understand the friction and disdain that I get from people who hear the word Christianity. The Christian church that the world understands is the church that perpetuates patriarchy, male privilege and dominance, perpetuates homophobia and enslavement but they don’t understand the biblical Christianity of Jesus. So I have to be very conscientious in listening to people’s pain about the church and hearing their narrative before I try to present them with Jesus. I want to be a human with them and identify with their pain because outside of what I profess theologically, there are things they say on a human level that I agree with, when it comes to people not being Christ like,” Lissaint says.
Learning to be the gospel and not just speak the gospel transformed how Lissaint shares the gospel with those in the industry. He identifies with the humility of Paul in the bible who “became all things to all men so that he might win some.” Lissaint’s preference is not preaching at people or beating them over the head with the Bible but creating a space for them to feel safe, comfortable and heard.
“The responsibility of the actor feels like a similar call to me as a Christian, where you are to be in complete service to something that is greater than yourself that will end up expanding the kingdom. I feel as Christians that’s what we’re called to do, to look at people who are hurting, who are broken, identify with their pain and then show them the beauty that is the LORD that can help redeem and save them,” Lissaint says.
“The advice I have for people who are trying to heal from past trauma and baggage is to slow down your life and allow yourself the time to actually think, unpack, pray and let the gospel shed light on those places.”
Onstage, the driving force for where Lissaint draws the line and how far he will go in the industry, is deeply impacted by the gospel. He aims to present the gospel message in a doctrinally sound and culturally relevant way. Offstage, Carvens is shining light on deeper issues in society much closer to his heart. In 2019 he released a book called “Target Practice” which he describes as a mixture of spoken word over jazz and R&B ballads that examines police brutality as a form of state sanctioned violence against black bodies. The project also features an EP of songs that reflect on his experience growing up as a Haitian American in New York and his inner thoughts on racial injustice on a daily basis that allows him to lament the lives lost to these tragedies. His upcoming piece entitled “Golgotha,” an Aramaic word which translates to “place of the skull,” where Jesus was crucified, focuses on a group of black men suffering from mental health issues like depression and anxiety.
“I’m writing a piece about a group of black men who are suffering from mental health issues like depression and anxiety. For black men, this can feel like we are walking to our own crucifixion but really, God is using it to set up a resurrection. I want black men to know that they have a space to be soft, loved, nurtured and a space to be completely honest about how and what they feel. I think God wants us to live in full hope and faith in Him, but we have to investigate the history of blackness in this country and how that sometimes makes the walk with Christ difficult,” Lissaint says.
In many ways Lissaint is still in the throes of healing his own “PTSD” of the soul through his relationship with Christ.
“I’m really putting a lens over a specific time in my life and allowing the gospel to shade over that so that I can heal and live a life of freedom where I’m not bound by my past. The advice I have for people who are trying to heal from past trauma and baggage is to slow down your life and allow yourself the time to actually think, unpack, pray and let the gospel shed light on those places. I think people should seek out mental health practitioners, therapists, and psychologists as there’s both a spiritual element of what it means to heal a clinical one. I think we need to let both of those things work hand in hand. I’ve been seeking out mental health professionals and seeking out biblical counselors to see how those things intersect so that I can live a healthier life” Lissaint says.
After a successful run and rave reviews in theater, the accolades pale in comparison to what he wants his legacy to be. “If I were to win countless Oscar, Tony, and Grammy awards just to come home and be a bad husband, I would’ve failed at life. I would’ve failed at everything. My number one priority right now in my life is my relationship with God, being the best husband and neighbor to my fellow people that I can be. My career comes after that,” Lissaint says.
Desiring the freedom he experienced at the moment of salvation to permeate through his life. “God called me to bridge and I think that there’s a lot of intersection. I think both faith and the world intersect and I’m trying to find ways to exist in both and bring people where I am,” Lissaint says.
Using the power of words to nurture, heal and restore broken people, ultimately, Lissaint wants his life to speak much louder than his words.
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Writer Bio:
Aasha Francis is a native Chicagoan from the southside of the city. She holds a bachelor’s degree in broadcast journalism from Columbia College Chicago and writes in her spare time. She serves in ministry alongside her husband in the Englewood neighborhood on the southside of Chicago and is a talented artist, songwriter, and producer. Artistically known as Aasha Marie, she is currently promoting her debut album “While You Were Sleeping” (WYWS) released in 2020.
Keep up with Aasha Marie on IG: aasha_marie or visit her website: www.aashamarie.com
Story Photo by John Louis
Read more work like this when you purchase Issue 2: Beauty in Brokenness of Resolute Magazine.